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How to determine programs that require .net on XP?

 
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aeroloose

External


Since: Jan 08, 2012
Posts: 8



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:20 pm
Post subject: How to determine programs that require .net on XP?
Archived from groups: microsoft>public>windowsxp>general (more info?)

I have all versions of .net on my machine. Reading other
posts, it occurred to me to consider trimming or removing
..net. But, I may have existing programs that require it,
and I may not know they do Smile Any suggestions on ways to
audit my PC for programs that use .net (and which version of
..net)?

Aero

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Jo-Anne

External


Since: May 11, 2011
Posts: 17



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:33 pm
Post subject: Re: How to determine programs that require .net on XP? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"aeroloose" wrote in message

>I have all versions of .net on my machine. Reading other posts, it
>occurred to me to consider trimming or removing .net. But, I may have
>existing programs that require it, and I may not know they do Smile Any
>suggestions on ways to audit my PC for programs that use .net (and which
>version of .net)?
>
> Aero


I don't know the answer, Aero, but I can tell you that after having lots of
trouble with .NET Framework updates, I uninstalled it--and found out that my
Dell computer wouldn't start properly without it. Every time I booted the
computer, I got an error message about SecureUpgrade that I had to click out
of. I also could not use Filehippo, a program that checks for updates to
programs installed on the computer. I finally broke down, cleaned out all
the old .NET Framework files (with lots of help from Microsoft Support), and
reinstalled the latest version and all its updates.

Jo-Anne

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Mayayana

External


Since: Aug 18, 2011
Posts: 22



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:15 pm
Post subject: Re: How to determine programs that require .net on XP? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

| Any suggestions on ways to
| audit my PC for programs that use .net (and which version of
| .net)?
|
There may not be any simple way to check,
other than trying them or posting a list here to
get feedback from others.

Since the runtime is so big, most software authors
won't be anxious to tell you that their software requires
..Net. A couple of times I've downloaded something that
tried to go online and install the .Net Framework without
even asking permission. Microsoft encourages that
behavior. (There was a time when all software downloads
would list the download size and the requirements. In many
cases now they no longer list either.)

There could be issues with some printers or other
hardware. If you have something like that requiring .Net
you might have difficulty removing it, though you may
still only need v. 2. Other than that I don't know of
many Windows programs that use .Net. The two that
Jo-anne mentioned seem to be some kind of DRM
http://www.wave.com/products/esc.asp
and a shareware program that looks for software updates.
Generally, small shareware is the most likely to require
..Net. The code is relatively slow; the dependencies are
gigantic; and since it's not actually compiled software, .Net
programs can be decompiled. Those are all qualities that
commercial software authors try to avoid.

The basic library that all .Net programs need, as far as
I know, is mscoree.dll. If you try to run .Net software with
no .Net you probably won't see an informative error message.
You'll just get a message that "mscoree.dll is missing". That's
the giveaway. You might be able to test by temporarily
renaming mscoree.dll and then running your software, but if
you have System File Protection enabled it might not let you
do that.

There's a very useful program named depends.exe that you
can use to find out what libraries a program needs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependency_Walker

The website for download seems to be currently down. I
have several SDKs and found that depends.exe is included
*at least* in the Win2003 Server DDK. So you should be able
to get depends.exe or its equivalent one way or another.

Depends lists libraries and which functions are being used
from those libraries. It doesn't always manage to find all
dependencies for all EXEs, but it should something like
mscoree.dll.

Java is a similar problem to .Net. Most software doesn't
need it, but occasionally some website functionality might
need it. OpenOffice needs Java for something or other...
I don't know what.... but I was able to find a Java-free
OO installer that's worked fine for me.
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Paul

External


Since: Dec 06, 2006
Posts: 513



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:19 pm
Post subject: Re: How to determine programs that require .net on XP? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

aeroloose wrote:
> I have all versions of .net on my machine. Reading other posts, it
> occurred to me to consider trimming or removing .net. But, I may have
> existing programs that require it, and I may not know they do Smile Any
> suggestions on ways to audit my PC for programs that use .net (and which
> version of .net)?
>
> Aero

Best answer so far, was this.

http://www.devfish.net/articles/clrver/article_CLRVer.htm

http://www.devfish.net/downloads.aspx

http://www.devfish.net/.%5Cdownloads%5Cfiles%5Cclrver.zip

Scans clean (not a guarantee it isn't malware)...

http://www.virustotal.com/file-scan/report.html?id=a6a831edfdbb8c5856b...d9d9975

*******

Now, if I unzip the file, and pull out CLRver\bin\Release\CLRver.exe
that seems to be all that is needed. I can then, test the program on itself
(as the program also requires dotnet to work).

In a command prompt window, while cd'ed to the directory holding that
single extracted file, I tried

clrver clrver.exe

and the answer was

clrver.exe=v2.0.50727

I would then consult a table of CLR version versus dotnet
release, to figure out what version of dotnet would have
to stay in place. In my case, it's probably .net 2.0 , as
that's all I'm likely to have installed.

*******

On the dotnet side of things, Stebners blog has a few tools.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=27e6a35d1a492af7&id=27E6A35D1A492AF7!376

It's possibly "netfx_setupverifier_new" that includes a tool
with dialog, which will list the dotnet layers installed,
and allow them to be tested. That's to allow a user to verify
their version of dotnet installation, is working. It might
also be used to point out, what library versions remain installed.

Once you've removed all your dotnet, I presume a tool like
that would throw a wobbly Smile I would expect most tools
used for dotnet, would have their own dotnet dependency
(which is why I did my "clrver clrver.exe" test case, to
demonstrate that).

Have fun (playing whack-a-mole) Smile

Paul
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Bert

External


Since: Jan 08, 2012
Posts: 1



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:27 pm
Post subject: Re: How to determine programs that require .net on XP? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In "Mayayana"
wrote:

> Since the runtime is so big, most software authors
> won't be anxious to tell you that their software requires
> .Net.

They'd be foolish not to tell you, since their product is worthless
without it.

--
bert.DeleteThis@iphouse.com St. Paul, MN
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Mayayana

External


Since: Aug 18, 2011
Posts: 22



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:27 pm
Post subject: Re: How to determine programs that require .net on XP? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

| > Since the runtime is so big, most software authors
| > won't be anxious to tell you that their software requires
| > .Net.
|
| They'd be foolish not to tell you, since their product is worthless
| without it.
|

Did you read down in my post? It's not unusual
for the installer to sneak online and download the
Framework with nothing more than a brief message
flying by during the install process. So you end up
saddled with 1/2 GB for what you thought was a
small trinket program, but most people "won't know
what hit them", so that approach is actually a
clever strategy. If they were honest they'd show a
message saying, "This software will take up as much
room as 1/2 of your total operating system. Do you
still want to proceed?" But that wouldn't win many
converts.
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user

External


Since: Jan 09, 2012
Posts: 4



(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:47 am
Post subject: Re: How to determine programs that require .net on XP? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"aeroloose" wrote in message
> I have all versions of .net on my machine. Reading other
> posts, it occurred to me to consider trimming or removing
> .net. But, I may have existing programs that require it,
> and I may not know they do Smile Any suggestions on ways to
> audit my PC for programs that use .net (and which version of
> .net)?
>
> Aero

If not broking,
do not Fix it...

For old software needs Old .NET,
like the old Games software you have,
New Software like XP Sp3 and up,
need new .NET to run!

--
User-agent: *
Disallow: /
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Mayayana

External


Since: Aug 18, 2011
Posts: 22



(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:12 pm
Post subject: Re: How to determine programs that require .net on XP? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

|
| For old software needs Old .NET,
| like the old Games software you have,
| New Software like XP Sp3 and up,
| need new .NET to run!
|

It doesn't work that way. There is no .Net needed
by XP SP3. .Net has no direct connection to Windows.
(Though some framework comes pre-installed on Vista/7,
so it's possible that Microsoft has installed a .Net applet
or two on Vista/7.)

When .Net came out there was v. 1 and 1.1.
..Net v. 2, which is already 10 years old now, eventually
became the standard version because later versions
are very big and therefore difficult to distribute. So a lot
of .Net software written now is .Net v. 2. Some is v. 3 or
later.
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Ken Blake, MVP

External


Since: Mar 28, 2011
Posts: 9



(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:42 pm
Post subject: Re: How to determine programs that require .net on XP? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 22:47:12 -0600, "000-111-000"
wrote:

> "aeroloose" wrote in message
> > I have all versions of .net on my machine. Reading other
> > posts, it occurred to me to consider trimming or removing
> > .net. But, I may have existing programs that require it,
> > and I may not know they do Smile Any suggestions on ways to
> > audit my PC for programs that use .net (and which version of
> > .net)?
> >
> > Aero
>
> If not broking,
> do not Fix it...
>
> For old software needs Old .NET,
> like the old Games software you have,
> New Software like XP Sp3 and up,
> need new .NET to run!



Sorry, but that is not at all correct. Neither Windows XP (SP3 or not)
nor any other version of Windows needs .net.

The .net framework (note its full correct name) is needed by some
*application* programs (again, not operating systems). And what
version of the .net framework the application program needs depends on
what version of .net it was written with.

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
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Bill in Co

External


Since: Sep 21, 2010
Posts: 7



(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:35 pm
Post subject: Re: How to determine programs that require .net on XP? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

000-111-000 wrote:
> "aeroloose" wrote in message
>
>> I have all versions of .net on my machine. Reading other
>> posts, it occurred to me to consider trimming or removing
>> .net. But, I may have existing programs that require it,
>> and I may not know they do Smile Any suggestions on ways to
>> audit my PC for programs that use .net (and which version of
>> .net)?
>>
>> Aero
>
> If not broking,

Come again?

> do not Fix it...
>
> For old software needs Old .NET,
> like the old Games software you have,
> New Software like XP Sp3 and up,
> need new .NET to run!

Eng 099 still recommended, Hot Text. Smile
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Paul

External


Since: Dec 06, 2006
Posts: 513



(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:43 pm
Post subject: Re: How to determine programs that require .net on XP? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Paul wrote:
> aeroloose wrote:
>> I have all versions of .net on my machine. Reading other posts, it
>> occurred to me to consider trimming or removing .net. But, I may have
>> existing programs that require it, and I may not know they do Smile Any
>> suggestions on ways to audit my PC for programs that use .net (and
>> which version of .net)?
>>
>> Aero
>
> Best answer so far, was this.
>
> http://www.devfish.net/articles/clrver/article_CLRVer.htm
>
> http://www.devfish.net/downloads.aspx
>
> http://www.devfish.net/.%5Cdownloads%5Cfiles%5Cclrver.zip
>
> Scans clean (not a guarantee it isn't malware)...
>
> http://www.virustotal.com/file-scan/report.html?id=a6a831edfdbb8c5856b...d9d9975
>

I tried writing some scripts, to scan my hard drive to see what versions
of dotnet were used by the programs on there.

Occasionally, I was seeing an error like this from CLRver.exe .

R6034 "attempt to load the C runtime library incorrectly"
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/1742/dotnetruntimeerror.gif

So in fact I couldn't make the script run to completion, without
having to dismiss about 21 of those dialog boxes.

It seems to involve 64 bit executables which happen to be sitting
in install folders here and there. Almost like, attempting to
analyze a 64 bit executable on a 32 bit OS, is some how compromised.

The CLR (common language runtime) version printed out by CLRver,
can be decoded with this table.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_.NET_Framework_versions

This is what my script recorded.

"V1.0.3705 occurred 13 times
V2.0.50727 occurred 156 times
-2 occurred 21 times"

and the -2 corresponds to each instance of error R6034.

So it looks like my old Windows Media Encoder package depends on
dotnet version 1.0. While most of the other junk on my hard drive,
is looking for dotnet version 2.0 . Some of the files captured,
are part of the dotnet installation itself, which means you have to
go through the list of detected files, to find files actually
in the Program Files folder structure.

Paul
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Char Jackson

External


Since: Jan 10, 2012
Posts: 8



(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:33 pm
Post subject: Re: How to determine programs that require .net on XP? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 14:43:03 -0500, Paul wrote:

>Paul wrote:
>> aeroloose wrote:
>>> I have all versions of .net on my machine. Reading other posts, it
>>> occurred to me to consider trimming or removing .net. But, I may have
>>> existing programs that require it, and I may not know they do Smile Any
>>> suggestions on ways to audit my PC for programs that use .net (and
>>> which version of .net)?
>>>
>>> Aero
>>
>> Best answer so far, was this.
>>
>> http://www.devfish.net/articles/clrver/article_CLRVer.htm
>>
>> http://www.devfish.net/downloads.aspx
>>
>> http://www.devfish.net/.%5Cdownloads%5Cfiles%5Cclrver.zip
>>
>> Scans clean (not a guarantee it isn't malware)...
>>
>> http://www.virustotal.com/file-scan/report.html?id=a6a831edfdbb8c5856b...d9d9975
>>
>
>I tried writing some scripts, to scan my hard drive to see what versions
>of dotnet were used by the programs on there.
>
>Occasionally, I was seeing an error like this from CLRver.exe .
>
>R6034 "attempt to load the C runtime library incorrectly"
>http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/1742/dotnetruntimeerror.gif
>
>So in fact I couldn't make the script run to completion, without
>having to dismiss about 21 of those dialog boxes.
>
>It seems to involve 64 bit executables which happen to be sitting
>in install folders here and there. Almost like, attempting to
>analyze a 64 bit executable on a 32 bit OS, is some how compromised.
>
>The CLR (common language runtime) version printed out by CLRver,
>can be decoded with this table.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_.NET_Framework_versions
>
>This is what my script recorded.
>
> "V1.0.3705 occurred 13 times
> V2.0.50727 occurred 156 times
> -2 occurred 21 times"
>
>and the -2 corresponds to each instance of error R6034.
>
>So it looks like my old Windows Media Encoder package depends on
>dotnet version 1.0. While most of the other junk on my hard drive,
>is looking for dotnet version 2.0 . Some of the files captured,
>are part of the dotnet installation itself, which means you have to
>go through the list of detected files, to find files actually
>in the Program Files folder structure.

Regarding your last point, couldn't you just point the script at the
Program Files tree and have it walk through that tree to completion?
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Paul

External


Since: Dec 06, 2006
Posts: 513



(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:17 pm
Post subject: Re: How to determine programs that require .net on XP? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Char Jackson wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 14:43:03 -0500, Paul wrote:
>
>> Paul wrote:
>>> aeroloose wrote:
>>>> I have all versions of .net on my machine. Reading other posts, it
>>>> occurred to me to consider trimming or removing .net. But, I may have
>>>> existing programs that require it, and I may not know they do Smile Any
>>>> suggestions on ways to audit my PC for programs that use .net (and
>>>> which version of .net)?
>>>>
>>>> Aero
>>> Best answer so far, was this.
>>>
>>> http://www.devfish.net/articles/clrver/article_CLRVer.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.devfish.net/downloads.aspx
>>>
>>> http://www.devfish.net/.%5Cdownloads%5Cfiles%5Cclrver.zip
>>>
>>> Scans clean (not a guarantee it isn't malware)...
>>>
>>> http://www.virustotal.com/file-scan/report.html?id=a6a831edfdbb8c5856b...d9d9975
>>>
>> I tried writing some scripts, to scan my hard drive to see what versions
>> of dotnet were used by the programs on there.
>>
>> Occasionally, I was seeing an error like this from CLRver.exe .
>>
>> R6034 "attempt to load the C runtime library incorrectly"
>> http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/1742/dotnetruntimeerror.gif
>>
>> So in fact I couldn't make the script run to completion, without
>> having to dismiss about 21 of those dialog boxes.
>>
>> It seems to involve 64 bit executables which happen to be sitting
>> in install folders here and there. Almost like, attempting to
>> analyze a 64 bit executable on a 32 bit OS, is some how compromised.
>>
>> The CLR (common language runtime) version printed out by CLRver,
>> can be decoded with this table.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_.NET_Framework_versions
>>
>> This is what my script recorded.
>>
>> "V1.0.3705 occurred 13 times
>> V2.0.50727 occurred 156 times
>> -2 occurred 21 times"
>>
>> and the -2 corresponds to each instance of error R6034.
>>
>> So it looks like my old Windows Media Encoder package depends on
>> dotnet version 1.0. While most of the other junk on my hard drive,
>> is looking for dotnet version 2.0 . Some of the files captured,
>> are part of the dotnet installation itself, which means you have to
>> go through the list of detected files, to find files actually
>> in the Program Files folder structure.
>
> Regarding your last point, couldn't you just point the script at the
> Program Files tree and have it walk through that tree to completion?
>

I could, but as a first effort, I wanted to scan everything to
check for "surprises" or things I hadn't thought about. Executable
code is thrown all over the place. For example, my 10GB C:\Xilinx
folder, is not in Program Files as it should be. When a project
gets too big for its own good, it tends to end up in its own
little world.

Paul
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Char Jackson

External


Since: Jan 10, 2012
Posts: 8



(Msg. 14) Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:13 am
Post subject: Re: How to determine programs that require .net on XP? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:17:55 -0500, Paul wrote:

>Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 14:43:03 -0500, Paul wrote:
>>
>>> So it looks like my old Windows Media Encoder package depends on
>>> dotnet version 1.0. While most of the other junk on my hard drive,
>>> is looking for dotnet version 2.0 . Some of the files captured,
>>> are part of the dotnet installation itself, which means you have to
>>> go through the list of detected files, to find files actually
>>> in the Program Files folder structure.
>>
>> Regarding your last point, couldn't you just point the script at the
>> Program Files tree and have it walk through that tree to completion?
>>
>
>I could, but as a first effort, I wanted to scan everything to
>check for "surprises" or things I hadn't thought about. Executable
>code is thrown all over the place. For example, my 10GB C:\Xilinx
>folder, is not in Program Files as it should be. When a project
>gets too big for its own good, it tends to end up in its own
>little world.

Understood, thanks. I've been known to do the same thing.
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aeroloose

External


Since: Jan 08, 2012
Posts: 8



(Msg. 15) Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:57 am
Post subject: Re: How to determine programs that require .net on XP? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 1/10/2012 2:43 PM, Paul wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>> aeroloose wrote:
>>> I have all versions of .net on my machine. Reading other
>>> posts, it occurred to me to consider trimming or removing
>>> .net. But, I may have existing programs that require it,
>>> and I may not know they do Smile Any suggestions on ways to
>>> audit my PC for programs that use .net (and which version
>>> of .net)?
>>>
>>> Aero
>>
>> Best answer so far, was this.
>>
>> http://www.devfish.net/articles/clrver/article_CLRVer.htm
>>
>> http://www.devfish.net/downloads.aspx
>>
>> http://www.devfish.net/.%5Cdownloads%5Cfiles%5Cclrver.zip
>>
>> Scans clean (not a guarantee it isn't malware)...
>>
>> http://www.virustotal.com/file-scan/report.html?id=a6a831edfdbb8c5856b...d9d9975
>>
>
> I tried writing some scripts, to scan my hard drive to see
> what versions
> of dotnet were used by the programs on there.
>
> Occasionally, I was seeing an error like this from CLRver.exe .
>
> R6034 "attempt to load the C runtime library incorrectly"
> http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/1742/dotnetruntimeerror.gif
>
> So in fact I couldn't make the script run to completion,
> without
> having to dismiss about 21 of those dialog boxes.
>
> It seems to involve 64 bit executables which happen to be
> sitting
> in install folders here and there. Almost like, attempting to
> analyze a 64 bit executable on a 32 bit OS, is some how
> compromised.
>
> The CLR (common language runtime) version printed out by
> CLRver,
> can be decoded with this table.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_.NET_Framework_versions
>
> This is what my script recorded.
>
> "V1.0.3705 occurred 13 times
> V2.0.50727 occurred 156 times
> -2 occurred 21 times"
>
> and the -2 corresponds to each instance of error R6034.
>
> So it looks like my old Windows Media Encoder package
> depends on
> dotnet version 1.0. While most of the other junk on my hard
> drive,
> is looking for dotnet version 2.0 . Some of the files captured,
> are part of the dotnet installation itself, which means you
> have to
> go through the list of detected files, to find files actually
> in the Program Files folder structure.
>
> Paul

I appreciate the info, but yikes! Quite a bit more
complicated than I was hoping for Smile I did hear somewhere
that Process Explorer might also be a way to get the
answers, but I think it still boils down to checking each
program individually. Not sure the effort is worth the
cost, at this point. Perhaps another poster has a simpler
way ...
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WARNING: KB942615 may require an extra reboot to apply cor.. - When I installed the Patch Tuesday updates on my WXP Box with MSIE6 installed. I had the same problems with IE6 startup as others are mentioning in these newsgroups. Specifically, about 60% of the time, I would get an "Internet Explorer has encount...

Troubleshooting RunOnce - how to determine why some (not a.. - Hi folks, I've been investigating the root cause for a critical issue affecting my CacheMyWork app (http://www.codeplex.com/CacheMyWork/ WorkItem/View.aspx?WorkItemId=2401). Ever since I received my (heavily-managed) corporate laptop at work, I've been....

arranging programs on "all programs" button - how do I rearrange the programs that are displayed when I press the ALL PROGRAMS button
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